tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4610166433689602437.post4750579294361744560..comments2023-09-08T02:30:11.257-07:00Comments on GO{4}PRO Photography!: How do you know you’re pro?Leah Remillethttp://www.blogger.com/profile/09518013452348811017noreply@blogger.comBlogger47125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4610166433689602437.post-52861481716983915282010-06-10T21:51:16.950-07:002010-06-10T21:51:16.950-07:00Thanks so much for your thoughts and comment Mark!...Thanks so much for your thoughts and comment Mark! <br />I completely agree on some of what (love that you called out the 5 weddings and you're a teacher thing ;) you said and not so much on other parts.<br /><br />I'll leave what I agree with alone as you said it perfectly yourself. <br />Lining pockets: I certainly have no intention of spending $1,285 for the complete. And while I do agree that everyone is usually trying to make a buck - do you lame them so much? We're all trying to pay bills? There are some things where I admit I'm shocked people are charging or at the very least how much they are charging. Paying $100 to complete a certification process is not one of them. $1,200 maybe, but the resources are available at a fraction of that cost if people are willing to put in the time and energy of finding them! So I'm looking at $100 to take the test and prove to MYSELF once and for all that not only in my eyes but in the eyes of my colleagues... I do make the cut! <br /><br />I am a HUGE believer in constant education and refinement of what ever you do! And you are so right... The internet is a gold-mine and Google has been my best friend through this learning process! But there are certain things that I would love to learn through a workshop, now I would be extremely particular on who I would take a workshop from (the list only has 2 photographers on it) but I do see the benefit in workshops if you are already tapping all of the other free (books & internet) resources and still want to push yourself further in a particular area and there is someone who specializes in exactly that. <br /><br />Equipment is essential, but there is so much more to it than having a great camera. What about running a great business that will actually be profitable (my favorite thing to teach on) or truly learning techniques to push and stretch your artistic ideas for your niche? There are somethings that can be taught so much better in an in-person environment as apposed to reading lines on a page (or screen ;) <br /><br />I definitely agree that there is some very obvious inaccuracies with this statement; "I hear the so called industry leaders are talking about now it’s the best time to invest in your education since the economy is down. Sure they’re just trying to make sure to keep their economy growing." Unless of course it's a workshop on a fool-proof system be over the top busy in this economy! Haven't seen that one yet. :-)<br /><br />Thanks again for your great comments!Leah Remillethttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09518013452348811017noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4610166433689602437.post-87774456718379793832010-06-10T19:55:31.427-07:002010-06-10T19:55:31.427-07:00Hi !
I bumped into this blog by accident and it m...Hi ! <br />I bumped into this blog by accident and it made me laugh when I saw the certified professional photographer, and on top of that so many people getting excited about it.<br />I think too many people get too obsessed on being called professional I don’t get it? Who cares? In my 6 years of shooting (3yrs wedding) I was maybe asked twice whether I’m professional. And being nice I told them everyone is professional nowadays!<br />Why would you want to spend money to some organization for some silly title? And then exam?? ($1,285 complete education and testing package) It’s just a way to generate money for someone else. And then every 3yrs you have to re-certified ??? I would invest that money into your equipment and you really don’t need that much anyway.<br />Same thing with WPPI and their awards that you basically paying for and generate revenue for them. You can learn everything you know about photography on the internet. You can learn all the technical stuff in a week. But learning how to see, composing and how to tell the story takes much longer. <br />People are so obsessed about taking workshops. It’s insane. I hear the so called industry leaders are talking about now it’s the best time to invest in your education since the economy is down. Sure they’re just trying to make sure to keep their economy growing. <br />Nowadays you shoot five weddings and then you teach a workshop. Same thing is in acting, no one really wants to learn the craft, but everyone wants to be a celebrity. I heard people that go to India to learn yoga won’t shut up asking how long it will take so they can go back to U.S. and become an instructor.<br />This industry is going so commercialized now. Yes everyone is nice and sweet, but the bottom line is they are trying to sell you something.<br /> <br />Learning how to see in a photography doesn't only involve taking pictures. <br />I hope I didn't upset anyone by my comments.<br />Thanks, <br />MarkAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4610166433689602437.post-64480562382899518612010-06-04T13:59:49.642-07:002010-06-04T13:59:49.642-07:00Thank you for the encouragement! :) I'll look ...Thank you for the encouragement! :) I'll look forward to that post. I love your blog. I just recently found it and it's been so helpful!Sarahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06000402570411338275noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4610166433689602437.post-55031033082524589692010-06-04T13:08:59.835-07:002010-06-04T13:08:59.835-07:00Oh my goodness... So many great thoughts!
Sara -...Oh my goodness... So many great thoughts! <br /><br />Sara - I just wanted to say to you, everyone starts somewhere. Nobody was incredible the first time they picked up a camera or edited in photoshop. I'm so glad that you realize that your time is valuable because IT IS! You do not have to charge $200 to be taken seriously. Charge $100, charge less. The key is to make it profitable and worth your while! There is something to be said for making prints affordable enough (I don't mean giving them away by any stretch) so that people can afford them. This isn't the place but I price certain things and a lower markup because it means a lot to me to see my work become their art!<br />Noelle and I will be working on a post together soon to talk about the miffs and myths in response to the accusations toward those who "bring our industry down."Leah Remillethttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09518013452348811017noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4610166433689602437.post-33975770380905110442010-06-04T12:56:38.844-07:002010-06-04T12:56:38.844-07:00I've been pondering the same things as Victori...I've been pondering the same things as Victoria. I don't feel like people who can't/don't charge $200 for a session are any less "professional." Some people just cannot afford that, but that doesn't mean that their only option should be to go get cheesy pictures at JCPenney. If you live in an area with a lot people who can't afford a $200 session, is the photographer less of a professional if they choose to cater to that market? Everyone deserves beautiful photography, and it seems like a photographer shouldn't be seen as less of a professional if they choose to price so that it's accessible to people with low incomes.<br /><br />I'm sure I have the views I do because of my situation: A) I grew up with two hard-working parents that wouldn't have been able to afford $200 for a session and $50 for 5x7 print. B) I'm new. I am taking classes and working on a certificate. I need experience. I need to get those 10,000 hours. I feel like my time is still valuable and I shouldn't do photography for free, but I don't think I can charge what someone with 10-15 years of experience can charge. I don't want to hinder the industry or undermine the efforts of those who've paved the way. It's a balancing act. I'm trying to find my way but I don't want other photographers to think I'm bringing the industry down.Sarahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06000402570411338275noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4610166433689602437.post-89204261718033739102010-06-04T07:47:34.567-07:002010-06-04T07:47:34.567-07:00What an interesting post and another goal to put o...What an interesting post and another goal to put on my list! I too see the pattern of pricing coming up. Living in a rural community I've struggled with pricing from the very start of my business venture. I would love to be certified but not sure how I could raise my pricing like a lot of boutique photographer's when I take into account my geographical location. This is one aspect on pricing I would like to see more discussion about and just haven't. There are so many formulas and guides out there {I've obtained a few myself} to help figuring out how to price. However, I keep coming back to the same issue-how do I price myself for an area where the median income is 30k-40k (this is a ND state average, so my area is probably on the lower-end) and still be able to make a living? I wonder if certification around here would change what clients would be willing to pay? <br />Thank you again for posting this...it's gotten my wheels turning for sure :)Victoriahttp://www.vlvphotography.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4610166433689602437.post-87805890698359302932010-06-04T07:33:49.348-07:002010-06-04T07:33:49.348-07:00I absolutely agree with this post! People ask me ...I absolutely agree with this post! People ask me why I won't charge and this is exactly why! I'm not a professional and I will never claim to be one until I have the proper education! Thanks for posting all these resources. I can't wait to use them!Heatherhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15173838593245688367noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4610166433689602437.post-68852067913768581382010-06-04T07:16:23.954-07:002010-06-04T07:16:23.954-07:00LOVE this post and all the comments. I read this y...LOVE this post and all the comments. I read this yesterday and thought ab out it all day. I have a certificate in photography (nothing fancy but I had to take tests, provide images and was critiqued and quite harshly thank goodness!). So I debated all day in my head if my certificate was good enough. Then I remembered how long ago that was and how much I have grown since. From lots of practice, critique from peers, seminars and continued education and I realize how important it is to never stop. Even after this certificate you speak of. The learning and striving to get better doesn't stop there. <br /><br />Some of the comments had me thinking also. Last year I took a seminar from an international photographer. He is one of the kindest men I have EVER MET. HE started out many moons ago when he was 17 I believe and is now in his 50's. Younger photographers in my area have mocked some of his work because some of his ideas are old school and feel his work isn't that great. They feel his film work was perfect but digital is off. They made fun of me for attending this seminar. I personally love his work and learned so much. Perhaps his style is different from mine and perhaps his editing is not to my taste. But do you know what I learned from him? I learned how to work artistic lighting, I learned how to shoot midday, I learned little secrets and tips of commercial shoots that at first intimidated me, I learned what they look for in competition images, I learned mind blowing tips about reflectors and so many other thins. So, yes I am not a commercial pro, and I can't be compared to him but we can learn from anyone, no matter who they work for. No matter what their style is. <br /><br />In life, there is always room to grow and polish oneself. We do it with so many things in our life, why not with our art. ;)Raquel Acevedohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08641411919292820777noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4610166433689602437.post-72013179976647557362010-06-03T11:34:39.648-07:002010-06-03T11:34:39.648-07:00I think if you are serious about any professional ...I think if you are serious about any professional field you are in you should consider continuing education. I personally like the idea of being certified because serious photographers will stand out even more than everyone else. As for the PPA I think I saw yes it is expensive but the great thing with the PPA is what comes with membership. I have been looking into there orginization for a while and gulp at price but know it pays for itself especially with the equipment insurance including with membership. Clients should always research photographers before hiring but I think this certification will help.Krystalhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16372098630516408352noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4610166433689602437.post-41592551068493410792010-06-03T11:18:28.064-07:002010-06-03T11:18:28.064-07:00Anna! That was positively poetic! :-)Anna! That was positively poetic! :-)Leah Remillethttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09518013452348811017noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4610166433689602437.post-78451837846985604972010-06-03T09:28:59.478-07:002010-06-03T09:28:59.478-07:00Wow, so many good comments! I follow this blog bu...Wow, so many good comments! I follow this blog but rarely comment and I'd like to thank Leah and Noelle for all the time they put into this. It seems to me that everyone is right. Yes, that's what I said - I think everyone is right. Call me crazy, but there is no right answer and this debate which, by the way, isn't new. Art vs. Study. Business vs. Skill, only not so. They aren't opponents, they are COMponents. Facets that combine to create the whole. I especially like what Brooke said about any education being good. Trial and error will do a lot, some are self-directed and fast learners, others get more efficient use of their time within guided structure, it's all about how you take advantage of whatever opportunity is available to you. Personal skill and experience will inevitably grow as long as one is dedicated to continue. I think the general idea Noelle and Leah (forgive me for "speaking for you" I know I don't need to,) want to convey, is for us to be encouraged to do whatever we can to better ourselves not only for the good of the industry, but for ourselves in our art. After all, even Van Gogh's last work was better than his first. Let's each in our own way do what it takes to improve on the work and vision of our imaging predecessors. Me? I'll get the "letters," and do my own thing with what I learn from them. Thanks again, to everyone!Annahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15873622834605997680noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4610166433689602437.post-86741142963491020992010-06-03T05:19:39.057-07:002010-06-03T05:19:39.057-07:00oh...I meant to comment on the issue at hand as we...oh...I meant to comment on the issue at hand as well. Will I do the certification? absolutely! I am always striving for ways to improve my work. Do I think that the "Smith" family cares if I am certified? Sure don't... <br />Equate it to Picasso(not my work, the topic at hand). Did Picasso have letters behind his name? Nope. Was he an incredible artist? Yes. The letters will never define the artist, but those that earn the "letters" might improve their photography through the work to attain them...<br /> Carrie Reger M.Ed (hahahaha<br /> had to throw in my "letters"<br /> for a laugh)Carriehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02673443973077683566noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4610166433689602437.post-51027778307298354232010-06-03T04:50:15.287-07:002010-06-03T04:50:15.287-07:00Totally off the subject...but Leah, you mentioned ...Totally off the subject...but Leah, you mentioned doing projections sales. I am scared to death to go down that road...but know it is a road I need to take. Can you post about that???Carriehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02673443973077683566noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4610166433689602437.post-25551173891106823922010-06-03T01:46:13.739-07:002010-06-03T01:46:13.739-07:00Awesome post. Awesome comments. Awesome discussion...Awesome post. Awesome comments. Awesome discussion. I love this blog! =)Clarissa Stagg Photographyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17319525100416595898noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4610166433689602437.post-63107920540590785032010-06-02T18:22:41.232-07:002010-06-02T18:22:41.232-07:00I'm all over it. Getting a business license d...I'm all over it. Getting a business license doesn't make me a professional and having a time limit set will push this dream to the front of my priority list. I've been given the "fake it till you make it" advise when discussing making $ with my passion but that just isn't me.Kimberly Junehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10173555434613085705noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4610166433689602437.post-8816339925728196172010-06-02T17:59:53.587-07:002010-06-02T17:59:53.587-07:00Amen!
I don't want to sound argumentative. B...Amen!<br /><br />I don't want to sound argumentative. But I think maybe I have a different picture in my head when I hear "professional photographer" I'm thinking not ONLY portraiture, but the bigger field included also; advertising, fine art, landscape, free lance, ect. Some of those fields cater to varied clients which may or may not include a larger emphasis on "art" It's just such a big field to cover in one blog post. Probably frustrating for you.Maryanne Gobblehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08828615069057687076noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4610166433689602437.post-11152180146645900232010-06-02T16:32:56.446-07:002010-06-02T16:32:56.446-07:00If certification is the means to an education , th...If certification is the means to an education , then awesome! <br /><br />I suppose overall, whether we receive an education through a university, through a book, through forums, through reading our camera manual, through classes, through lots of trial and error, or by taking a course to get certified, the goal is the same, and absolutely imperative:) <br /><br />p.s. just discovered your blog today by a recommendation to read your article! Fun stuff!Brooke Snow Photographyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04897034800176106241noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4610166433689602437.post-78575381282656534922010-06-02T16:17:52.918-07:002010-06-02T16:17:52.918-07:00Anonymous - Yes you can become a member if you are...Anonymous - Yes you can become a member if you are not in the US!Leah Remillethttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09518013452348811017noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4610166433689602437.post-83760599243120364572010-06-02T16:05:34.503-07:002010-06-02T16:05:34.503-07:00Once again - I am loving the discussion going here...Once again - I am loving the discussion going here BUT I WISH I could just pick up the phone and start a confrence call because I can tell that so many things I'm saying are not being understood and I've seen other people feeling the same in the comments... <br /><br />Brooke & Marryanne- B: I love everything you said, except that you forgot to disagree, because I completely agree. The problem is, I'm talking and writing to photographers ALL over the gammet (no I don't know how to sp gammet? ;) Remember I started by saying I know a lot of great photographers with no formal training/certification and I would NEVER respect them less for not having it. YOU DON'T NEED CERTIFICATION! And I was never implying that you do, it's an option, a choice and for me - I'm excited to take it! <br /><br />Maybe the primary photographer I am talking to is new? Although it's written thinking about myself as well... But let's use a newbie to try to explain. She/he is not confident in their work or with their camera. They are producing good images and are working hard but still haven't reached where they would like to see themselves. They feel insecure and uncomfortable with where they stand (and I get dozens of these types of emails a week) and they are looking to improve and grow in our field. <br />What a fantastic opportunity to be given a specific outline on what to learn and study for, to have a goal in mind to work toward with a wonderful accomplishment/reward in the end, who could argue with that?? <br />Of course an artist is still an artist and your work is going to be liked or disliked based on the emotion you're able to evoke with in the onlooker. <br /><br />However (and please don't respond with hate mail cause this is not to anyone directly) I think some put to much emphasis on artist. If you take pictures of people, you are a story tellers FIRST... A painter can paint a black canvas, mark it with an x and call it art if thats they're prerogative if however, they want to be commissioned for specific jobs they are going to have to prove more than that or they won't get hired! <br /><br />We are not only artists, we are capturing MOMENTS that in some situations (i.e. a wedding or a birth) can never be duplicated and we have an obligation to be prepared to successfully accomplish it if we claim we can. If certification can help photographers accomplish just that - awesome!! <br /><br />And I loved, your Manuel clip - that was a great episode. I actually read the first 2 lines 4 times before reading down and seeing the link, I didn't even get it! Ha!Leah Remillethttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09518013452348811017noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4610166433689602437.post-43658333269278818082010-06-02T15:46:27.221-07:002010-06-02T15:46:27.221-07:00Can you join Sandy's forum/learning site even ...Can you join Sandy's forum/learning site even though you are not in the US??Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4610166433689602437.post-58364977457842479502010-06-02T15:29:31.814-07:002010-06-02T15:29:31.814-07:00Brooke! Your comment didn't show before I pos...Brooke! Your comment didn't show before I posted mine, sorry to rehash what you said so well! I've also wondered is schooling can "taint" artistry.Maryanne Gobblehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08828615069057687076noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4610166433689602437.post-43896557268422547132010-06-02T15:27:33.592-07:002010-06-02T15:27:33.592-07:00I guess I don't think it a fair to compare bei...I guess I don't think it a fair to compare being a certified dentist to a photographer. Photography is so subjective, it's art. Dentistry... Not so much.<br /><br />If I bought a painting I would not care if the painter went to school, what brushes they used, if they were using the proper techniques or if other painters thought them qualified. I would buy what moved me. <br /><br />I don't think certification would help insecurity, I think it would make it worse, for me at least. It just sounds so gimmicky, almost scam like. Pay someone $100 to feel better about myself or prove myself to others! <br /><br />On a positive note, I really like the videos you post on this blog. Always fun to watch other photographers work.<br /><br />MaryanneMaryanne Gobblehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08828615069057687076noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4610166433689602437.post-81883347336289504022010-06-02T15:05:59.028-07:002010-06-02T15:05:59.028-07:00With the absolute utmost respect, I offer a sincer...With the absolute utmost respect, I offer a sincere rebuttal :) <br /><br />I don't necessarily agree that photographers must be certified. Of course, I'm not certified and can easily take that position! But I know my camera through and through, shoot exclusively in manual and am confident I can get great images any time of day or in any situation. <br /><br />For some industries a standard of certification and education is indeed important. I agree that a medical professional should be certified, but I don't agree that certification is necessary sometimes in other fields.<br /><br />There is an AMAZING artist (painter) in my community. He's trained and "certified" with an educational degree. He has an equally talented son who also paints. He actually encouraged his son to NOT go to school, in fear that it would taint his natural artistry. <br /><br />Personally, there is no way in the world I would buy an art piece based off of someone's "certification". I will buy it because I like their work. <br /><br />I may have a Masters in Music Composition, but no one is going to hire me to do a film score, because of that "certification"<br /><br />But...<br /><br />good 'ol Kurt Bestor or Sam Cardon (who never finished their music undergraduate degrees from BYU) have won Emmy awards for their movie scores...<br /><br />They get the jobs because of their talent and understanding, and quality of past work, not because of certification. <br /><br />I do believe STRONGLY in education, and understanding your camera. Obviously. That's why I actually teach classes for photographers to master manual. <br /><br />But I don't think its ruining the industry to not have people "certified". <br /><br />People can still sense quality when they find it. Having cheap poorly made cars hasn't lessened the value of the Lexus, or BMW. If anything, it makes them even more valuable.Brooke Snow Photographyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04897034800176106241noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4610166433689602437.post-7714849798120837002010-06-02T14:08:03.144-07:002010-06-02T14:08:03.144-07:00Manuel.
Manuel who?
http://www.youtube.com/watch...Manuel.<br /><br />Manuel who?<br /><br />http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DkkJCmcLQfQ<br /><br />Sorry :) I know what you really meant to say, but it certainly conjurred up this The Office clip ;)<br /><br />Interesting perspective. I wholeheartedly agree that photographers shouldn't go "pro" without a proper understanding of their camera and shooting in manual, but we all have to start somewhere. There are under-qualified people in every industry. And unfortunately, as much as we like to think our quality of images is the most important, I would venture to say that having business skills trumps the photography skills. I know "certified" amazing photographers with exclusive degrees in photography from big name schools who have horrible business skills and are not successful, and on the other hand, know people who are self taught artists who's quality is not spectacular, but they have incredible business sense, customer service, and are highly successful. <br /><br />The ultimate of course, is to have great artistic AND business skills.Brooke Snow Photographyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04897034800176106241noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4610166433689602437.post-33665330409772470592010-06-02T13:09:39.621-07:002010-06-02T13:09:39.621-07:00Thanks so much! I can't wait! This blog is awe...Thanks so much! I can't wait! This blog is awesome! So many amazing people! Thanks Leah!Stephaniehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09296838834620963359noreply@blogger.com